What is the current value of a W32

  • April 02, 2014 9:12 AM
    Message # 1529990
    Deleted user

    I know that this is a subjective question with answers based on a number of factors but I am interested in what the membership feels Westsail 32's are worth in the current market and if the boats are even selling  well. I have been looking at Bud Taplins website for many years and some of the boats he is representing appear to be on the site for a very long time indeed.

     

  • April 02, 2014 10:37 AM
    Reply # 1530050 on 1529990
    Deleted user
    Chris:

    They sell for way way to little if the boat is complete and taken care of.  Like 20K less than they should be worth.

    They sell for way to much for a fixer, (like 5 to 15K to much)  but the fixer is much fewer $$$$'s than a boat ready to go, so the boats seam to be a good deal to some one who can not afford a boat, but they are not. i.e. selling the dream and a boat that has not been taken care of (like being frozen in ie fracturing the glass). These bottom boats (trashed) have given all W32's a black eye because there is allot of them, for a while I saw the 28's selling for more. WOW that is a statement.

    The current market has NOT BEEN GOOD (I myself have turned down a FREE 44 foot steel boat a friend offer 2 years ago it was in good condition) yes FREE was not low enough that I would want to own two boats.

    I believe there are three things that have lead to low demand.
    1.) The economy. The middle class (The ones buying 30 - 40 foot boats) took a big hit
    2.) West Marine and alike (sticker shock) just bring your own ambulance
    3.) Movies , papers and the internet (the 70's and in the 90's there seamed to be a love affair with sailing to exotic lands and the exploration of this round ball) in 2003 and later we see people taken hostage, beheaded and shot in exotic lands, pirate activity and wars = not quite the same PR it once was.

    And Chris for your answer, how much;   it is how much a buyer is willing to pay and that the seller does not choke on. it is hard to sell for 1/2 of what you invested but that seams to be the trend.

    a Last note: if there becomes another option other than outright sale, (lease, partners, donate with no sale clause, etc etc) the prices will go up. Note: some of the non sale options are depending on Insurance, market, etc.

    If I missed the question (for insurance) the amount should be 45K + for more stuff - for needing repairs. And you knew you have to have a survey right? this should give you a value to use.

    Also remember there were 800+ boats built so 5% for sale would = 40 boats for sale at any one time.
    __________________________________________________________

    added 4/7/14

    as Jesse noted below: boats are a depreciating asset. (i.e. Not an investment)  This I completely agree with! they loose value every year (and much faster if not taken care of) also I complement him on his statement of (investment, renting, purchasing) I agree

     I would note, however, that one can currently get a slip in the Bay area without to much of an issue 2013; this was not the case back in 2004 when demand was high, so the the economy does have a factor on the ability to sell, and the price above or below the natural depreciating value of a boat, at any point in time.  Just a fact of life! Low demand for all boating = low demand for any one type of boat.


    Last modified: April 07, 2014 9:48 AM | Deleted user
  • April 02, 2014 4:53 PM
    Reply # 1530297 on 1529990
    Deleted user
    Norm as usual good post, about what I was thinking, so the guys looking to get 70k are dreaming, as to losing money this is why I would never sell.
  • April 05, 2014 8:31 PM
    Reply # 1532169 on 1529990
    Deleted user

    In the past 24 months there have been 10 brokered sales of W32’s with a reported average sale price of about $45k. This holds true looking back as far as seven years with over 30 sales, but the price is dropping naturally as you might expect 30 and 40 year old boats to do. With that said, Westsails have tended to hold closer to asking price (2% to 5%) than most other comparable boats recently. It is likely there have been a similar number of private deals. Five non-brokered cash sales which I have been involved with in just the past few years have averaged about $50k. These values are more or less in line with BUC and NADA depending on how you adjust the criteria, but those values have been steadily dropping over the past ten years. 

    In a broad discussion of valuation about one model of boat with a long production run you can pretty much discount the ugly ducklings as irrelevant unless they constitute a majority of the market. Enough people are maintaining and upgrading Westsails that the upper echelon boats are more of a factor when considering a typical or average fair market value.

    In a few special cases I know hull insurance policies will be written for as high as $90k, otherwise a reasonably equipped W32 in #3 BUC condition can make a good case for $50k+. Of course this is no guarantee sellers will find willing buyers at that price point in any given market at any given time. Too many nice boats for sale at one time in one region will almost always drive the price down. Even in the most booming economy, the sellers of used boats do not tend to see a lot of bidding wars.

    Boats always depreciate; very fast at first, then slower for a while and then fast again until they are worthless or antiques. Considering the first of the Westsails are now over 40 years old, they are doing relatively well but will continue to depreciate steadily no matter the economy, world politics or public perception.

    If you want an investment: buy real estate. If you want to go sailing: charter a boat. If you want to own a boat… try not to worry too much about logic and just enjoy the experience. 

  • April 06, 2014 5:21 PM
    Reply # 1532498 on 1529990
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Jesse:  Thanks for the post - nicely done.

    Jay

  • April 15, 2014 8:50 PM
    Reply # 1538599 on 1529990
    Deleted user
    Regardless of the assumed value to a potential buyer, my boat is nearly priceless to me.

    I'd consider selling if I had a high offer, and I had another W32 lined up for an arbitrage. And even then, I'm particularly fond of this one, so it would have to be a significant arbitrage.

    I was lucky to find a motivated seller and got my boat for well under market value. It was midwinter and I took a risk buying it when a proper survey wasn't possible. I assumed an initial value of 40K, then calculated the cost of how much I might have to pay to repair unknown issues and factored that in my offer.

    Living aboard for year paid a significant percentage of the boat and was something I had really wanted to try. If I ever get around to doing some cruising, the boat will pay for itself.

    My feeling is, as long as a W32 can still sail around the world, it can only depreciate so much.

    I guess I'm hopelessly biased, but the W32 is an astounding package deal. It was during the 70s and still is. The beautiful Colin Archer hull done in easily repairable, low maintenance solid fiberglass; the large interior making it a great liveaboard, but at 32', small enough that I can maintain it myself; the ability to cross oceans, but with only 5' draft; the classy details like teak caprails and bronze portlights. In my opinion, no current production model can match the W32's combination of beauty, strength, capabilities, and maintainability.
  • April 16, 2014 12:18 PM
    Reply # 1539128 on 1529990

    Well said Nathan,

                    For Westsailors the boats are as important to us as the actual sailing. thank you for the reminder.    Lee 

  • April 16, 2014 9:20 PM
    Reply # 1539455 on 1529990
    Deleted user

    I agree with the posts as far as they go.  We recently spoke to a sailor at the police docks in San Diego who had been talking to someone on the east coast that was asking @80K for his boat. Before he could go see it, it sold.  I can't remember the name but I recognized it.

    If someone is trying to sell a 40K boat for 60K they'll never get it.  But more than a few Westsails are worth that much and more. To take an average Westsail and refit it for long distance cruising is likely going to cost more than 60/70K, probably closer to 100K.  This is one of the major reasons these boats change hands over and over again, before or if they ever go anywhere. If you find one fully loaded in top condition, pay top dollar for it you’ll be money ahead.  Most people have no idea what they’re getting into.  We didn’t

    Last summer before we left an older fellow was walking the docks, looked at Worldwind and started asking questions about her.  He had once owned a Collin Archer type boat that he had sailed across the Atlantic a couple of times.  He asked what I thought she was worth and I said 75K.  He immediately and seriously asked “would I sell her”?  I was going to answer (probably yes) but Julie jumped in and said no.  Before you scoff at this price keep in mind what it costs to outfit a boat, he knew he’d be money way ahead. If I’d have known what I was getting into twenty years ago I’m sure I’d done something else.

    Jim