Pics of mast compression? Judgment call request.

  • May 09, 2012 12:32 PM
    Message # 915856
    Anonymous
    It seems that every time I begin a project it leads into several more that have to be done first. It started as a simple toilet install, now I've got rotten bulkheads in the bathroom and this: 

     I removed my headliner and can see where the ceiling is sagging quite a bit. The sag isn't directly below the mast so I'm not sure what is causing it, or whether I need to jack it back up and provide some additional support. Can someone take a look at my photos and tell me what you think? Thanks very much, Eric

     

    Here is one of about 6 images - Jay
    Last modified: May 09, 2012 6:11 PM | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • May 09, 2012 6:33 PM
    Reply # 916094 on 915856

    eric

    i had a similar problem on my w28 "narwhal", but mine wasnt nearly as bad as yours appears to be.  my distortion was more or less in a fore and aft direction. yours appears to be all around. take your straightedge out on deck and it will probably show distortion there as well. also check to see if the aluminum mast step is rotated from vertical, mine was.

    the mast is supported on a boss about 2" thick on top of the deck. the inside of the boss is formed with laminated plywood.   on my boat a leak at the hole for the mast wiring, caused this plywood to turn to wet mush.  the wide mast step pushed the rest of the deck down around the top of the compression post causing the deck to deflect up into the mush space. i sugget that you check your deck core material to see if it has turned to mush as well.

     

    i removed my mast, dug the mush out of the boss and replaced it with solid epoxy and fiberglass scraps. (i have a picture of this somewhere) i then jacked up the deck using a 4x4 post and wedges from a platform that bridged the bilge. (dont jack off the bottom of the bilge! see below.)  i also wedged the deck up off the bulkhead. i then cut about 1/4" off the top of the compression post and fabricated a stainless steel 't" beam to span across the top of the post onto the door jamb foreward of the head door.  i then supported this jamb at bilge level with a smallish sort of stump under the liner onto the flat of the bilge. (this was probably not a good idea because the bilge at this lication is just a bit of plywood glassed over some foam).

    i think the top flange on my ":t" beam was 1/4" x 4" about 2' long and the stem of the "t" was about 1/2" x 2".  the mast end projected aft over the post to spread the deck load.  the "t" part was fitted with a couple of brackets that i housed into the compression post and jamb and fastened with 14 ga screws.  i may be able to provide some detail of this beam if you want and i can find them. depending on the state of your deck, you may need something wider that 4" across the top of the post.

    i subsequently found that the short stump under the compression post below the liner was bearing on the thin glassed plywood that spans the bilge.  the plywood ended at the edge of the lead ballast and caused a sheer tear in the flat of the bilge that allowed the keel space around the ballast to fill with water,  but that's another story that i am still working on.

     

  • May 10, 2012 8:28 AM
    Reply # 916601 on 915856
    Anonymous
    James, that was very helpful, thanks. I appreciate that your post was so comprehensive because now I can see that I'm having exactly the same issues as you. I couldn't identify any soft spots by tapping or poking, but since my cabin top is crushed, I strongly suspect that to be the case.

    I would like to know more about this T-beam because I had considered jacking up the cabin top and fabricating and affixing a traditional wooden beam spanning it's entire width.
    Your solution appears to be a more practical one.


    Since it was only in the past month that I paid big bucks to have my mast stepped, rigging tuned and furler installed, i'm gonna cry if I now have to do it again. How serious is this problem? I hope to take this puppy offshore this fall, can the fix wait until I get to the Caribbean or am I setting myself up for a disaster? I don't need to tell you that this totally sucks?!
  • May 10, 2012 4:16 PM
    Reply # 917136 on 915856
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Hopefully Bud will join in soon...

    Couple of thoughts -

    1. Is the standing rigging looser verses when it was rigged last month - if the mast is not supported then the standing rigging will pull the deck down.

    2. On Pygmalion (W32) when Bud examined - he sighted down the cross beams - when the boat was new the bottom of the cross beams were on the same plain and have the same arc stb to port. 

    3. Check bud's manual as I believe he has a write up on mast compression. 

    Hope this helps.  You do have a problem that needs addressing before cruising IMHO.

    Jay  

  • May 10, 2012 8:05 PM
    Reply # 917289 on 915856
    Anonymous
    Thanks Jay, not what I wanted to hear but better to find out now that it needs attention than halfway to Bermuda!

     
  • May 11, 2012 5:25 PM
    Reply # 918097 on 915856
    Deleted user

    Here is a bit about our experience with the mast compression post on Mary Rose V.  Hope this sheds some light on your issue.

    http://www.captainmontgomery.com/2009/08/mast-compression-post-westsail-32.html

     

  • May 14, 2012 8:30 AM
    Reply # 919753 on 915856
    Since the mast support construction on the W28 is very different than that of the W32, or W42/43, it does take a different approach to the repair.  James's approach is probably the best one to ensure there will not be any problems in the future.