Jib Sheet Winch Bolting

  • March 30, 2014 5:08 PM
    Message # 1528201
    Anonymous

    I've noticed that when my portside jib winch is under substantial sheet load that there is enough force applied to the winch bracket to slightly distort the inner structure of the bulbark just a bit.  The aft bolt appears to be threatening to pull through the fiberglass!  Should I be worried?  (I am!)

    I've also noticed from photos that some vessels have their winches thru-bolted from the outer bulwark structure.  Is this an owner modification...a factory engineering change...owners relocating their winches for better sheet lead?

    When thru-bolted from the outside, is solid blocking installed between the inner and outer bulwark structures?

    Advice appreciated.  Boat and owner under stress!!

  • March 30, 2014 5:42 PM
    Reply # 1528219 on 1528201
    Deleted user
    My genoa winches sit on a stainless steel right angle that thru bolt all the way through the inner and outer layer of fiberglass with 3 carriage bolts with no support in between the layers of fiberglass. I think the .25" bolts are 4" long.  If your bolts only go through the inner layer, then it sounds like you need to invest in 6 carriage bolts. I can't imagine your current setup being strong enough for a large genoa unless you were to beef up that inner part of the bulwark with say a stainless steel backing plate.
    Peter
  • March 30, 2014 9:38 PM
    Reply # 1528302 on 1528201

    Ahoy Paul,

    My arrangement is the same as Peter's.  I inherited the boat that way.  Since I took ownership I have added blocking inside of the bulwark, between the hull and deck mould,  For what it is worth, I sheet the genoa/drifter/spinnaker sheet from the track mounted car to a turning block (a cheek block) that is mounted on the cap rail aft of the winch first, and then back forward to the winch.  This gives me a little more control of the sheet and insures a better alignment to the winch.

    Good luck with your project,     Dave

  • March 30, 2014 10:15 PM
    Reply # 1528308 on 1528201
    Deleted user
    Paul:

    I have added the block in between the hull and the deck for the winches. With the bolts going all the way through all three.

    My boat like yours, had the winches only using the deck for support when I bought it. (I noted some small stress cracking from this) = not good at all.

    For the fix I took off the winches looked into the bulworks and fitted a couple of 4"x 6" x 1.8+/-" yours may be other than 1.8"thk. from below (I cut or sanded down the thickness part) and pushed the blocks up in there (mostly tight), then I pulled them back out used a bit of acetone to wipe the area clean for the bond and then added 1 layer of wetted out 8 oz glass 8"x 6" over the top of the wood, then shoved it all back up into the space and had a stick to prop it up, just in case it wanted to slide back down (Use a bit of wax paper under this mess when pushing it up into position, it will drip! the wax paper helps with the mess.  Lastly with a long drill bit I bored from the existing holes in the deck out through the wood and then through the hull as true to square as I could.

    I used longer ss carriage bolts to rebolt the winches.

    One note for Peter: if you do not add the wood and glass in between, you are trading the 5/16" glass of the deck for the 7/16"+ thickness of the hull.  I.e. if you do not put a spacer in, you do not get the strength of both.  This is what will happen when a core delaminates, or what would happen if you took out all of that bracing on a truss style bridge.  Just a FYI your setup is only twice as strong as the original through the deck only bolting, but If you install the block, the bolts are the limiting strength issue and should = about 12,000 +lbs +/- so, if you use 7/16  or 1/2" line, the line or the sail (will break first).

    Dave a note on the turning block it sees 2 times the line load. This is true of all 180 deg blocks.  

         sail pull        <------------
                                       O ) -----> load on turning block = sail + winch
          wench pull   <------------

    Norm    

    Please Note: I do love paper towels they are great!, and when doing glass work, always check that I have a full roll at hand before mixing the epoxy, some how I am always happier if I remembered to have the paper towels near when working with sticky dripping stuff.


    Last modified: March 30, 2014 11:16 PM | Deleted user
  • March 31, 2014 5:29 PM
    Reply # 1528937 on 1528201
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Here is Pygmalions stbd winch - I'm thinking the carriage bolts are 5/16"  - the block aft the winch really stops the jib sheet flaying the crew!  also the blue Wincher works pretty good - not like a real self-tailing winch though.

  • April 01, 2014 1:04 PM
    Reply # 1529473 on 1528201
    Deleted user
    Jay that is a nice picture:

    I have to use a turning block off the boom gallows for my drifter; but the setup in your picture would not require this (Nice).  And I agree totally that your layout makes the cockpit a nicer place to be!!

    But from an engineering point, the turning block could have very big loads on it. Example if your jib sheet had 3500# tension on it, the turning block would need to hold a load of 7000#, if it is using ball bearings, this load may start to crush them depending on mtl & size.  So just watch how much you load up the sheets and check those blocks often for ware and for movement.

    Engineering aside, I do like your layout, just be careful on the loads.

    Norm

    p.s. just in case you wanted to know; my routing uses a standup block just aft of the grate on the side deck as close to the bulworks as  possible.  Engineering wise = ok 3500# on the line = about 800# lifting on the block. but it is kind of in the way+/- but the feed to the winch is fine.
     
    Last modified: April 01, 2014 1:27 PM | Deleted user