Cap rails

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  • February 26, 2014 5:00 PM
    Reply # 1506677 on 1505900
    Deleted user
    Claus Vogel wrote:Hey great job, I was thinking of doing this myself but still wanted the wood, your idea of the eyebrow has made me  decide, I'll do it.

    Diane and Dave were discussing options for putting some wood back on to make it look more like the original and came up with the eyebrow. We are very happy with it. Our goal was not so much to eliminate wood from the boat but to stop the leaks. We also considered putting a teak cap rail back on but that would have doubled the cost of the project.
    Last modified: February 26, 2014 6:24 PM | Deleted user
  • February 26, 2014 5:15 PM
    Reply # 1506686 on 1505926
    Deleted user
    Edward Herold wrote:Outstanding. Very nice write-up!!!

    Can I ask a few questions?  On the risers.  Were these layed up in a sheet then the curve cut out of the sheet from a template on a bandsaw?

    On the teak eyebrow.  Were these bent to the curve of hull?  Or were these band sawed as well. 






    Dave laid up the risers in his shop. They were laid up straight. He actually ran them through his planer to get the thickness and then beveled them on the table saw. Needless to say this is pretty hard on the tooling (I think we still owe him some planer knives) . They were bent to the curve of the hull during installation.

    The teak eyebrow was bent to the curve of the hull with the exception of the pieces where the bulwarks drop and merge with the rubrail. Those pieces were bandsawed and hand shaped for each location.

  • February 26, 2014 5:30 PM
    Reply # 1506695 on 1506313
    Deleted user
    Michael Abrain wrote:Am I missing something? Where is the write up? Only thing I see are great photos. I need some information on this project. :) 

    The write up referred to is the captions under the photos. Diane took the photos and added the captions. She and Dave did most of the work (including the lay up) while I was at my desk doing my day job.
  • February 26, 2014 5:54 PM
    Reply # 1506710 on 1506522
    Deleted user
    John Mendoza wrote:Really nice work.  No leaks, guaranteed.

    Question:  how did you secure your jib track?  Did you bolt it thru-rail?

    The holes for jib track were not drilled through. They were drilled 3/4 inch deep and bottom tapped. The thickness of the layup and the riser together is almost 1/2 inch of solid fiberglass.
  • March 03, 2014 6:12 PM
    Reply # 1509965 on 1505238
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

     Via email from John and Diane Clark -- thanks for the write up ...

    Cap rail Layup: 
    I apologize if this document is layman terms and maybe overkill on detail and an extreme amount of pictures for the more experienced glass working artisan but I am a beginner.

    Photos  (1 - 89) present the process, smoothness required to achieve a great finish, angles, measurements, paint detail and precise attachments of car tracks.

     

    There are no specific resin - hardender - filler ratios listed in this document.  Talk to a glass expert for further instructions.

    Photos (90 - 123) are just the finished product and it shows the payoff.

     

    The end result is very professional looking (thank you Dave), beautiful, has teak but considerably less time will be spent on maintenance, and most importantly, no leaks.

    One could accomplish this project in the water with enough tarping and debris catching/containment procedures. But, given the amount of prep work, epoxy resin flowing, sanding, chunks of fiberglass taken off, it is  easier in the yard.

    The written process coincides with the pictures.  If my instructions aren't making sense, the pictures may assist. 

     

    This project will take about 10 days, not all days are 8 hours of work but will feel like it.  A lot of cleaning, prepping, cutting, grinding, sanding, refill, sand, painting and more sanding between coats to get a very even, smooth finish. 

     

    The process is similar to painting a perfect wall in your home, or the mirror finish on the bow sprit. All lines, bumps, extrusions WILL show in the end, so be diligent.

    We aren't very pleased with the final paint used.  It was a Petite 2 part paint, new on the market, but we wanted a particular color that Perfection doesn't offer.  We researched other options but ended up with Petite.  We consulted with the rep 6 months later about the streaking/flow of paint, and more than likely, the day temperature was too hot. This will vary with regions, ie, temp, humidity, etc. 

    Good news with 2 part paint, we can wet sand with 2000 grit and smooth out flow lines, and/or repaint. (But when the rail is under the water, who will know?)

     

    The Prep Work:

    Extensively clean the hull to deck joint, reaching up under the joint with dental pick, screwdriver, etc., will reach most of it.  This is important to have the epoxy bond the joints.

     

    Clean the surfaces with acetone to remove all grime and caulking residue.  Do it again.

    Grind off flaking gelcoat, get a smooth surface that will hold the epoxy and to get an even surface when laying up the glass.  All bumps, partially offset screws, bolts, etc will show through in the  finished product so grind, unbolt or drill out as necessary.  Konami doesn't have any as extra time was spent throughly cleaning and prepping the caprail. 

    The original hull/deck joint screws were left in place. Some needed to be ground flush so they would not interfere with the layup.  Also recommended that we drill out all the open holes left from the original cap rail. Drilled them oversize and countersunk them to provide a clean hole for the epoxy to bond to.

     

    We did the same with the jib car track bolt holes. I like to think this will also provide additional sheer strength to the joint.  Prior cap rail screw holes were drilled with 1/4" for increased resin holding capacity.  Holes left open from screws or bolts drilled out should be filled with small bits of cotton to avoid having the epoxy resin drip through to the cabin or bulwark area.  Do not fill the holes entirely with cotton, you want the epoxy to sit on top of the cotton ball, it's a plug.

    Mark the genoa car track holes on side of boat for reinstallation in the same position unless plans are to change the position of the track.

     

    Epoxy Application:

    Apply first coat of neat epoxy with brush. Ensure the hull  to deck joint is thoroughly saturated, around each screw,  and holes are wetted.  (Photo 11)

    Mix small batches  epoxy, resin hardener, 403 and 404 to consistency of heavy ketchup.  About 4 pumps of resin and hardener each to about 1/3 cup of 403 and 404 each.  You want to be able to spread and fill holes and joint evenly but quickly before it sets.  Spread using stick and spreader very evenly.  The appearance looks like clear toothpaste, (Photos 12- 16) for detailed application.

    After hardened, sand lightly to remove high spots, drips, etc. Don't sand down too far into the finish.  (Photo 13)

     

    Fiberglass Layup:

    The fiberglass mat and cloth comes in various widths. I think we had 40" width so calculate how much you need. 

     

    "The "mat" that was used for the layup was actually a DBM. or Double bias Mat. It is a Knytex Biaxial fabric, and purchased in a 50" width. We used a 25oz material for both layers and topped that with a 10z cloth." - Dave King


    Three times around the boat, all at once. 

     

    Cut fiberglass mat to width of caprail.  Some places may be wider, stern and bow, measure those and cut accordingly.

     

    Coat the fiberglass mat with epoxy resin, apply 2 layers of mat, final layer is cloth.

     

    Use a fiberglass roller to squeeze out the air bubbles.  Complete all 3 layers at one time. 

     

    It took us about 1.5 hours for just the epoxy/glass layup, going around 3 times. 

     

    Dave is highly experienced and knows how to work the glass evenly.  This may be a longer process for others without experience.  Definitely have somebody helping with this process.

    Sorry no pictures here, I was busy soaking the mat and glass strips in neat epoxy and handing off to Dave as he laid them into position.  (Photos 18 - 23)

    Once dry, sand lightly so not to break through the top layer of cloth.

    Trim the edges of the mat to edge of the bulwarks using trim router, grinder, longboard.    It looks good the first pass but seems to grow back overnight, I swear!   

    Photos 27 and 28 are showing a longboard being used to rough sand the edges of the layup flush with the side of the hull. It was important to get this area flush so that the teak eyebrow would lay flush to the hull side.

     

    This was a 2 - 3 day process to get a primary cut done.  Don't worry about getting the "final" trim and sand complete at this point.  There will be a lot more sanding to do in the next phase. (Photos 24 - 41)

     

    Applying thickened epoxy:

    Once lightly sanded and smooth, apply thickened epoxy on top, create a smooth surface as possible.  The epoxy layer may be different for each owner.  Sand caprail to attain uniformity and smooth surface.  Any high spot remaining will show through the paint.  This may be a 2 or 3 step process to get a smooth finish that is even in thickness and contour.  Notice in the pictures, there is still considerable amount of "final" trimming and sanding.  This is where the completion and perfection takes place.  (Photos 42 - 47)

     

    Applying the cartrack risers:

    The risers were laid up in Dave King's shop. He built up the risers to 7/16" thick and planed down to a smooth 3/8".  Use one's preferred method.

    The holes for jib track were not drilled through. They were drilled 3/4 inch deep and bottom tapped. The thickness of the layup and the riser together is almost 1/2 inch of solid fiberglass.

     

    Lay out the riser where you marked the bulwarks before the entire process was started. (you remembered, correct?) Do a preliminary attachment, do not drill through the new hull to deck joint. Try to calculate the new total  thickness and mark the drill bit.

     

    Bend the riser around the caprail.  Screw in the temporary screws to create all the permanent holes in the riser.  Back out all the screws.  (Photos 48 - 54)

    Mix the thickened epoxy and apply to the cap rail, small sections at a time.  Begin screwing in the temporary screws as epoxy is applied.   (Photos 56 - 62)

    The temporary screws hold it in place until dried and ready for sanding and paint. (Photos 63 - 71)

     

    Painting epoxy primer:

    Before applying paint, remove the temporary screws in the car track!

    Paint with epoxy primer. Sand off high spots or paint blobs.  Repaint again, this was done 5 times. Lightly sanding between coats. (Photos 63 - 82) A lot of pictures to look at, but a smooth finish is key to a professional looking cap rail.

     

    Final painting:

    Use choice of paint. 2 part may be better for durability and maintenance. Check with the chandlery.

     

    Mask off the paint area. Mix choice of non-skid to paint. Apply, wait for total dryness and repaint.  Konami was painted 3 times with final coat. (Photos 83 - 85)

     

    Trim:

    This is boat owner choice.  The teak eyebrow was choice here for aesthetics, teak finished looking product. (Photos 86 - 89)

    The eyebrow was bent to the curve of the hull with the exception of the pieces where the bulwarks drop and merge with the rubrail. Those pieces were bandsawed and hand shaped for each location.

     

    Car Track final installation:

    The temporary screws were removed before painting but the indents will still show so the placement of screws are obvious.

     

    Konami's screw length required 1 1/4"  (1.25) length, 5/16" Stainless.

    The holes for jib track were not drilled through. They were drilled 3/4 inch deep and bottom tapped. The thickness of the layup and the riser together is almost 1/2 inch of solid fiberglass.

     

    Apply Tef-gel to avoid corrosion.

    The track placement is in hard to reach areas up in the bulwarks.  It is optional to drill through and bolt in a few places  where reachable.

    We feel the attached car track is well secured without through bolts.

     

    John and Diane Clark

    Last modified: March 04, 2014 6:50 PM | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • March 03, 2014 8:45 PM
    Reply # 1510062 on 1505238

    I would like to make just a couple comments:  The "mat" that was used for the layup was actually a DBM. or Double bias Mat.  It is a Knytex Biaxial fabric, and purchased in a 50" width.  We used a 25oz material for both layers and topped that with a 10z cloth.

    The riser was laid up to about 7/16" and planed down smooth to 3/8".

     

    Last modified: March 03, 2014 8:46 PM | Anonymous member
  • March 04, 2014 6:55 PM
    Reply # 1510833 on 1505238
    Anonymous member (Administrator)
    Diane:  I think I have edited into the original text Daves comments ... advise as needed.

    Dave:  what is the unusual qualities of that specific type of glass cloth - beyond the biaxel part? 

    Jay
  • March 04, 2014 9:49 PM
    Reply # 1510910 on 1505238

    Jay,

    The Knytex fabric has a layer of Mat stitched to it on the underside.  Mat has random direction fibers loosely held together.  Whenever layers of fabric are laid down, whether on an old material, or as new material, it is best to use a layer of mat between the other layers, whether that be roving, or cloth or whatever.  The mat will better fill, and conform to the other fabrics.  The problem is that mat is very difficult to wet-out using hand tool techniques.  It falls apart and balls up.  It is actually nearly impossible to use, especially with epoxies.  With the mat literally stitched and held in place to the other fabric, that problem is solved.  These Knytex biaxial fabrics come in a variety of weights.

    This product is one of the best for general repairs.  One weakness, however is that it does not stretch very much and can not conform to an extreme compound curve like a cloth can.  As an example it will not conform to a corner on all sides.  Another small shortcoming is that it's unfinished surface is a bit rough and not always acceptable as a finished surface.  That is one of the reasons that a layer of cloth was laid down on top of the Knytex.   The cloth makes it a little easier to obtain a smoother finish.

    Thanks for your interest,    

    None of this will be on the final test,     Dave

    Last modified: March 04, 2014 10:02 PM | Anonymous member
  • August 18, 2021 3:59 PM
    Reply # 10940447 on 1505238

    I would like to duplicate your cap rail. I clicked on the photos link and received the 404. Is there any way to see the photos? Let me know, thanks.

  • August 19, 2021 2:10 PM
    Reply # 10942435 on 1505238
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Warren: can you reply with the url that you are using? 

    Google dropped it's Google Plus and messed up a lot of links. 

    Thanks 

    Jay Bietz

    Last modified: August 19, 2021 2:11 PM | Anonymous member (Administrator)
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