Bow Down W32

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  • July 08, 2013 3:01 PM
    Message # 1335941
    Deleted user

     

    When I repainted our W32 I duplicated the molded in water line with a new boot stripe. When  I launched the boat for the first time I was a little surprised to see that the boat is not floating on her lines. The boot stripe at the bow is about two inches under water, while at the stern the boot stripe is out of the water and the bottom paint exposed. On most photo's I have seen the bobstay tang is out of the water, on our boat the tang is submerged just below were the bobstay fitting connects to the tang.

    I am not carrying anything substantial in the bow, only a 35lb CQR on the bowsprit, with no anchor chain, most of the heavier gear is in the salon. The only thing I can think of is my fuel tanks are empty and this has been effecting the trim of the boat. I would welcome some thoughts here.

  • July 08, 2013 6:19 PM
    Reply # 1336085 on 1335941
    Deleted user
    My boat was built in 1975.  I have a hard time keeping the bobstay fitting out of the water.  Right now there is nothing in the vee berth, 3/4 full fuel tanks but a 60 pound anchor and 300 feet 5/16 chain on the bow and my fitting is about where you describe.  The other two Westsail 32 s in my marina don't seem to be so sensitive to bow weight.
  • July 09, 2013 7:43 AM
    Reply # 1336534 on 1335941
    Deleted user
    The shear line looks pretty good. has that normal raised W32 bow, however like you say 1/2 the bobstay tang underwater as well as the forward boot stripe.
  • July 10, 2013 6:52 AM
    Reply # 1337329 on 1335941
    There was a period of time in late 1974 or early 1975 (I was no longer employed by Westsail at the time), that they decided to use three pieces of cast lead as ballast.  When they launched the first one of these boats, the bow was well down, and the prop was just clear of the water.  They had not calculated the correct positioning of the lead.  I know some of the boats that had already been ballasted had some removed from forward (very difficult), and some just had more ballast added in the stern.  The experimented with a few more boats before they finally got the ballasting locations straightened out so the boats floated properly on its lines. 

    Yours might have been one of the boats laminated and ballasted during this time period. 

    The boats should float with the bobstay fitting just clear of the water.  That is unless you carry around a lot of "extra junk".
  • July 10, 2013 11:18 AM
    Reply # 1337521 on 1335941
    Deleted user

    Westsail had its problems. They could have been easily avoided. The first major problem was water leaking past corroding gudgeon bolts into the ballast cavity, causing the boiler punchings to rust and expand threatening the integrity of the hull.All those sailing entusiasts at Westsail did not think of filling the gudgeon location area up with mishmash (asbstos mixed with PE resin to the desired consistency. Nobody cared that the gudgeons and stainless steel bolts would cause a strong electrolytic reaction. I do not know how many boats had that problem before that was corrected. When I bought my first W32, an all lead ballast was offered in response to that occurrance. I ordered the all lead ballast, assembled the interior, added an engine, rigging, no tanks yet and launched the boat in King Harbor, Redondo Beach, California. The boat floated nose down. I immediately notified Westsail Corp and "they" said that they would fix it by adding ballast into the stern cavity. - One advantage an all lead ballast had, was that the old ingot and punchings combo was too risky and took too much potential storage space. Also the boat was pictured on a "Windblown" issue with two CQRs hanging from the bow sprit, and I intended to carry at least as many (see my blog in a decades ago westsail blog about Hurricane Iwa on Kauai in 1982).- Yeah, they added a ton of lead in my precious bilge space, but not enough to allow for two 35 CQR on the bow without the bobstay fitting being permanently under water, unless I store the anchors elsewhere when parked in a marina. Anyway, having the ballast right up to the aft cabin sole, instead being the space for fuel tanks was ridiculous, and I wanted the agreed to storage space there. A friend from UCLA law school had the same problem with his W32 and decided to cancel the sale, saving all the head aches. I knew that the Westsail company was barely "staying afloat" themselves and they would not/could not give me my money back and compensate me for my time building the interior. I instead asked to have the problem fixed and I hired an attorney to deal with the legal issues. A meeting was set up with Westsail Corp, Bill Crealock and myself and the attorney. In the meeting my attorney was insulted, Bill Crealock also claimed that the extra ton would make the boat sail "smoother" to which I replied that the Disneyland submarines would run smoothly too, because they run on tracks in the pools. In the end, we agreed to have the ballast rmoved aft, and the additional added ballast removed I am asking myself how did Bill C. get jobs designing other boats after this fiasco?.- I sailed the boat down to Newport Beach and tied it up in one of the Westsail Corp. slips there. The boat was totally empty, except for my installed interior furniture, and with a minimum of weight it sailed well. In Newport, Westsail started to work on the boat, and it turned out that the three keel castings were also set into steel punchings. It was clear from their attempts to move the ballast, that the project was not workable. We settled for a new boat with two of the ballast castings placed into a position at my direction, and the balance in lead ingots uninstalled just stored in the aft end of the keel cavity, a new interior with a few modifications installed to bring it up to state the first boat was built. The rigging was not set up, I took the new boat from Newport to Redondo with no problems just under engine power ( that is the subject for another day). In Redondo I filled in the space of the castings with thin mishmash and a hint of catalyst. The ocean water temperature is below 60 degrees Fahrenheit and it would take the polymerisation (chemical hardeing process) a long time to occur safely. I took the ingots after measuring the keel space to a lead casting company and had them cast long bars which I fitted into the aft space behind the big castings. After finishing all this, I ended up with a boat that floats on it's lines with two CQRs, 450 feet of chain underneath the V berth. My boat is distinctive in that it has a stainless steel bowsprit of my own design, as I wanted to have a place to sit watching the fish swim in the bow wave. The bow sprit I had made by a fabricator that made the ones for the Islander ketches. The boomkin has a stern anchor set up, but that was more problems in Hawaii during a tropical depression, as I should have allowed the boat swing  more in a crowded anchorage. There are other improvements that could have and should have been made. It is not too late for a talented individual to do them if a custom boat would be built today.  The hull halves where they joined underneath on the keel were not finished, causing growth there and making it difficult to clean the hull.

    The wooden boomkin is the attachment for the main sheet , but one can not add a wind generator there. That is why I went for a stainless steel boomkin, and to be able to hang an anchor there. That was in 1976 and effective wind generators were not available. Nevertheless, I bought one while in London from Thomas Foulkes (probably not in business anymore), and that was a disappointment. No wind generator mast for that needed. My solar panels I kept on deck, as I had them on there in light weather on the ocean( My Volvo MD3B had a waterpump problem leaking water ito the crank case in mid ocean, disabling the engine). While living aboard in Redondo Beach/King Harbor the output of the panels was not great either in the late 70s, but ten of them at least ran all the lights, and a tiny BW TV, not enough for the fridge. The wiring of the dock was defective and nearly sank a large trawler. So I ended up having "green" power by supplying my own.

    In retrospect, Westsail Corp  and Bill Crealock should have avoided that problem with the nose down. In those days, b.c. (Before Computer) one did physical testing. If not a scale model mockup, the the real thing, without assembling would be floated, because once you glue the lid (attach the deck permanently) shut, you cannot lift the ballast with a crane and this test would be a cheaper than the legal costs dealing with unhappy customers. There are other areas of criticism, but after all these years let us not hurt each other even more.

    W32 Polaris

     

    Last modified: July 17, 2013 9:56 PM | Deleted user
  • July 10, 2013 7:10 PM
    Reply # 1337813 on 1335941
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Micheal - that is a story for the perminate pages -- if you don't mind - Do you recall the first boat's hull number?  I know that a 400 lb lead chunk was removed from a boat in the SF bay in the last 2 years.

    Jay

    Last modified: July 10, 2013 7:12 PM | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • July 10, 2013 11:23 PM
    Reply # 1337971 on 1335941
    Deleted user

    Jay,

    I do not think it would be fair to expose the current owner of the first W32 I purchased. Consider this: He probably paid full price, and I have seen a picture of that boat with the original name (it is bad luck to rename boats) in these WOA pages. If I named him, his equity in the boat would be suffering and he could seek some kind of revenge. But the fact remains, that when Westsail offered all lead ballast, there were major screw ups on 7 to 10 boats. There is no secrecy clause in my settlement agreement; but especially when it comes to products that one stakes one's life on carrying you safely across oceans, a purchaser has to absolutely make sure that that product is safe. I never heard of a dead person try to get compensated when the boat sunk in mile deep waters and he went down with it. It is imperative even for experienced sailors to have a reputable marine surveyor who specializes in the type and size of boat one intends to purchase. In the medical field you ask for second opinions, why not with boats?

    There were other issues happening with Westsail: Such as the hull and deck joint did not fit properly together, and when I through bolted the genoa tracks, the bad assembly became a liability as the stress caused the 1.5" thick mishmash filler between the deck and hull to crack. Westsail Corp, when they opened the East cost plant,  needed a second set of molds. The  California hull mold stayed, and a new hull mold was built for the East Coast. The West Coast got a new deck mold. Finally both sets of molds mated properly on the subsequent hulls and decks constructed. It is difficult to predict the shrinkage on parts the size of boats when the polyesther resin cures. I do not blame them, it happened with other boat manufacturers too.

     I do not know what Westsail Corp did to make the returned boat acceptable to the prospective purchasers and if the next owner had a competent marine surveyor to protect himself. The boat is likely in Southern California judging by the hailing port, but my experience with it would have precluded me from trans oceanic voyages in it in the condition Westsail sold it to me.

    Michael:  I understand your concerns -- thanks for the stories from the past.

    Jay

    Last modified: July 19, 2013 1:15 PM | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • July 12, 2013 2:48 PM
    Reply # 1339184 on 1335941
    Now, even I know the rest of the story. 

    I had heard rumors from a number of my old friends that still worked at Westsail about the screwup of the placing of the three pieces of cast lead ballast, and the problems with the first few of the boats that were ballasted with the cast lead.

    I will keep your secret of the hull number of that boat, since I do have it on my numerical list of boats, with previous owners names.
  • July 13, 2013 4:56 AM
    Reply # 1339395 on 1335941
    I have lead ballast and float bow down, bobstay fitting just under the water.  My prop however, is well underwater.  Fortunately I'm berthed in fresh water so I'm not too concerned with electrolysis.

    I attribute it to having both 35# CQR with lord knows how much 3/4" rode/chain and 45# CQR anchor on 150' of 3/8" HT chain in the anchor locker and a v-berth (my 'garage') stuffed full of crap.

    Michael/Bud - can you share the range of hull numbers around the time all this was occurring?
    Last modified: July 13, 2013 5:03 AM | Anonymous member
  • July 13, 2013 5:14 PM
    Reply # 1339723 on 1335941

    Mike,

                       I have hull number 175 with hull date of April 1974. I recently made contact with the original owner/builder (88 years young now). He stated that due to a miscalculation by the Westsail factory for the placement of the 3 piece lead ballast, he had to make an adjustment upon launching. This meant either relocating the ballast or adding more on the aft end. My boat sits level in the water with a 40 lb super max anchor on the bow but the whole boat sits maybe an inch lower than others so maybe more ballast was added. Anyway she stands up to full sail in a blow. Other boats affected would be during this time period.

                                Lee

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