Forgot password

Wood preservation concerns, comments, and questions?

  • May 17, 2013 7:28 AM
    Quote
    Reply # 1295346 on 1291653
    Deleted user
    I just think (a lot of times I am wrong) that varnish and other means are a cost that may not be needed.

    These people I read about have never used varnish or epoxy and the boats they sailed around the world in are going on over 35-40 years of age with one being 100+years old! 

    I don't want to start an argument I'm just wondering why they can do it and others can not? Are we simply talking about cosmetics? I liveaboard so its perhaps a matter of people that don't liveaboard that need to varnish / epoxy for upkeep reasons. 

    In the books he says that the salt penetrates the wood creating a strong barrier in the grain of the wood. And one should rinse the wood once a week perhaps daily if in the tropics. 

    Last modified: May 17, 2013 7:30 AM | Deleted user
  • May 17, 2013 8:02 AM
    Quote
    Reply # 1295381 on 1291653
    Anonymous member
    I will say some of the boats that I've seen of the vintage you mention have teak 1 1/2" thick. That lasts a LONG time. Also from my readings in those days replacing wood was expected and teak didn't cost an arm and a leg, nor did other local woods. WS actually used a good thickness of teak in their boats, 13/16" I believe and that lasts quiet awhile. But check your cap rails. I've seen many now that are close to 1/2" in thickness and some less. Look at the screws showing in the decks of WS's that had teak decks. The screws are not backing out, the teak is scrubed away.  Other boats of newer vintage are using 3/8" teak decking. Good for maybe, IMHO one owner.

    We use "Honey Teak"   http://www.signaturefinish.com/ and find it the longest lasting. We've tried many different products over the years but we are able to overcoat once every 12 - 18 months (at 18 months the finish has dulled a bit) but the wood is still well protected and looks great from 10 feet. We use a scotch brite pad and take any dirt off and give the varnish something to hold onto. We used to put two coats on thinking that was better but have experimented with only one coat and find it does just as well for recoating. The teak lasts much longer this way and IMHO looks good.  We did epoxy seal the undersides of the cap rails before we put them back on and then varnished them.One of the nicer things about HT is that when you start you can put wet on wet so in two days we had our full build of varnish. With HT there is an undercoat and a top clear coat. It is also a two part clear coat and if it's on for 2 to 3 hours without rain then rain will not bother it. Of course the temp outside effects this time too. While I know varnish is often a personal choice like a boat or a good mate, IMHO I like the KISS principal. Once / year is better then washing every week, better then oiling ever month, better then replacing every so often. For our WS 42 it takes us a week or so to do the entire exterior of the boat; I'm guessing about 40 man hours total counting my wife and I. We prep in the am, apply before lunch and then the following day do another section. There are multiple pics of our boat on our blog and web site so you can see what the teak looks like at various times. http://svelysium.net/blog 

    Our good friends on Salty Dog ( a WS 32 they owned for and lived aboard for 20 some years)  had Honey Teak (in West Palm Beach, Fl) and waited 3 years to re-coat. Said he should have reocoated after 2 year. 

    If you live in the northern latitudes then the kind of varnish doesn't matter much as most likely you'll get 3-6 months out of an application. But, if you expect to cruise in the tropics then you have to prepare for Sun 365 days a year. The Sun  experience is what makes most varnish / sealers IMHO worthless.


    Ciao
    Last modified: May 17, 2013 2:22 PM | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • May 17, 2013 3:38 PM
    Quote
    Reply # 1295681 on 1291653
    Deleted user
    Norm and others. 
    I am confused as many people clearly state strongly against it yet the Pardeys whom are well respect state inversely that's its very practical. 

    Let me dig up the page in the book here....

    Page 179 starts off about bare & scrubbed wood 

    Reasons for doing so include
    A permanate easy to clean on skid surface.
    Scrubbed wood minimizes maintenance, including oil, painting, sanding and varnish.
    Minor brushes and dents from shackles, chain etc can swell back up as if it never happened.
    Also saves cost for materials 

    The book goes on for 11 pages on the benefits and types of wood used. All without varnish, epoxy and paint. Some places onboard they don't recommend scrubbed wood but the caprail is not one of them. 

    I just want to do it right on my boat and sit confused. By the way my w32 has a varnish on it now and is very thick ~3/4" in places. I may just varnish again :(

    I just read this from practical sailor,
    Speaking about bare teak
    It is still, however, less work than maintaining a varnished exterior teak surface - a lot less. If you really think you want varnished teak, try maintaining a clean oiled surface for a season first.


    Last modified: May 17, 2013 3:43 PM | Deleted user
  • May 17, 2013 5:55 PM
    Quote
    Reply # 1295746 on 1291653
    Anonymous member
    While I respect PS a bunch they have at times led me astray.  They spend a most of their time in the NE; not in the tropics. I can tell you if I felt scrubbing-washing, and rinsing was easier while cruising I would do it. Hell, we can't even clean and oil the wood on the bowsprit on a regular basis yet alone the whole boat.

    As for the Linn and Larry they've cost me a bundle too. If you want to ascribe to their style then go for it. The WS isn't an all wood boat and the 32 is much larger then even their 28 and much more complex taking more time to maintain and cruise.....comfortably in.  I've even talked to other cruisers that have been at an anchorage when Linn and Larry arrived and they asked for help in towing their boat in to the harbor. I'm not betting my life on that story but I don't really doubt it too.

    The friend I talked about on the 32 told me he'd beat me with an oar I used any other varnish other then Signature Finishes. I'm glad I used HT not because of the threat but because of the ease of use and the longevity in the tropics.

    Oh, and I'm not talking about teak decks. Walking teak areas stay natural.
    Ciao
    Last modified: May 17, 2013 5:57 PM | Anonymous member
  • May 19, 2013 9:29 PM
    Quote
    Reply # 1296666 on 1291653
    Deleted user
    To hitch your wagon to the Pardy's mantra as it's gospel is a mistake. They are very accomplished sailors, more than I'll ever be, to which I take nothing from them.  They do have some good information and it's worth about what you paid for it, about $20 bucks. Just kidding!!!

    Some friends of ours that know them explain it this way.  "They have painted themselves into a corner with their iconoclastic, motor-less, outdated, cruising philosophy. They can't change it now as that's how they make their living."  Also they are known as, "Lin and Larry tow-me" by cruisers So.Pac.  They are greatly respected and admired for their seamanship ability, but that's as far as it goes, almost no one cruises in that style.  They're  hundreds if not thousands of cruisers just as accomplished as they but don't promote themselves to make their living at it.  Including some Westsailors.  The only ones who take them or any other authors to much to heart are the beginners.  Which we all were at on time.  I now only listen to cruisers whom I respect and personally know, not some "arr-be -dar" dock walker.  I want to be sure of the source of the information. I apply the 90% rule of common sense.  That's if 90% of the cruisers do one way then there must be some merit to it.  90% varnish their teak. 

    Check out this months Cruising World.  Lynn Pardy's rebuttal to a letter that was about her previous article exclaiming the virtues of not having a dodger.  It goes beyond the border of absurdity

    I have seen their boat at a boat show and it's truly a work of art.

    Jim. 
  • May 20, 2013 7:41 AM
    Quote
    Reply # 1296919 on 1291653
    Deleted user
    Much and many thanks everyone that's a good old fashion slap in the face and wake up. I'll listen to my gut and cover this teak cap rail with something. I've got to slow down a little thanks. 
  • May 21, 2013 3:46 AM
    Quote
    Reply # 1297673 on 1296919
    Anonymous member
    Michael Abrain wrote: I've got to slow down a little thanks. 


    Good idea... That's what it's all about anyway, right?
  • May 21, 2013 6:05 PM
    Quote
    Reply # 1298514 on 1291653
    Deleted user
    I don't want to detract from the "to varnish or not to varnish" discussion, but I too have been reading some of the Pardy's books (yes, I am a newbie, bear with me). I'm all about being thrifty and self sufficient and all, but I have begun to think that there is a point where being too self sufficient and cost conscience might just make you a burden on your fellow cruisers and sailors.

    Don't get me wrong, I like their books (or what I have read so far), most of it makes common sense. But some of it seems just a little farfetched and/or downright dangerous - granted they have been doing it for decades, but still........

    So I take it varnishing is highly recommended then?
  • May 21, 2013 8:27 PM
    Quote
    Reply # 1298618 on 1291653
    Deleted user
    As far as varnishing the cap rails you should do it, or paint them, as your aesthetics desire. It is a relatively thin piece of 35+ year old teak bedded on fiberglass that will not take the weather unprotected much longer. Also consider that Larry built both their boats and could likely replace any weather damaged wood in less  time than it would take to maintain a coat of varnish for 20-30 years. Take a look at a recent photo of Taliesin (also 35 yrs old) and you'll see very little unprotected wood, most is painted or varnished, with the deck, boom gallows and cockpit coaming left natural.

    As far as dissing the Pardeys' philosophy of simplicity as antiquated, I would heartily disagree. I've sailed on boats with and without engines, mostly with engines that wouldn't work when you wanted them. It will make you a better sailor not to rely on an engine. I'll admit I like having an engine that works, and I'm learning to enjoy engine maintenance, but there is a constant tug between simplicity and complexity and the distractions that all the "gadgets" bring aboard. 

    I would never put a dodger on my W32 for many of the same reasons as Lin Pardey lists. Not only do most of them look bad, they interfere with sailing the boat well. I think a "Maine" dodger over the companionway, that can be folded down out of the way in good weather, is a good compromise. Like this one:



  • May 22, 2013 4:02 AM
    Quote
    Reply # 1298732 on 1291653
    Anonymous member
    Switching to dodgers, I too was of the mind that a dodger is a nuisance and a PITA on a sailboat. However Wendy was of the different idea and this is one addition she demanded we put on our boat for our current cruise. Since she demanded a dodger I was able to choose what one and I choose the Wavestopper. It is a little more expensive then a standard dodger but I can sit on it or stand on it and I've no fear of tearing through.

    Now I've come to appreciate the dodger. It makes off shore passages much, MUCH more comfortable and even in an anchorage when the wx turns to crap I can sit in the companionway dry and make sure all is well during the worst part of the storm.

    In hindsight we cruised 20k miles in our 32 and made our life much more difficult then it needed to be. we did this without a dodger. I am now a dodger supporter having cruised both ways. You can read about our experience installing it or you can read about the Wavestopper  on their site. I have no financial interest in Wavestopper and receive no numeration from them.

    If I lived on the Pacific coast there is an excellent Hard Dodger built in the PNW and I actually tried to buy one of his but he wouldn't make one and ship it for me to install and I couldn't talk him into a vacation in Florida at the time to install it on our boat.

    Ciao
Powered by Wild Apricot Membership Software