Pygmalion - in the yard at Ladd's Stockton, CA

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  • December 02, 2014 5:31 PM
    Message # 3161613
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Pygmalion has been on the hard for about a week and here  is a link to the picasa album. 

    After 5 full days, the bottom is ready for the DLK fairing and later more bottom paint.

    I'm very concerned that the time to sand the bottom was much longer the it should have been.  I think the time will be ~19 (actual invoice for 14 hours) hrs at $90 per hour... and yes the part of the bottom that wasn't sanded to the gel coat was very thick with a lot of paint blisters and missing layers to the older bottom paint - in other words it needed more than a rough sanding (as was done the last 3 haul outs).  

    5 yards that I researched don't allow you to sand and only 1 offered to rent you their equipment at a reasonable daily rate..  either way the sanders with vacuums while very clean are also very slow to cut through the bottom paint.  

    Festool  and / or Fein  orbital sanders seem to the the sander and vacuum of choice in this area.  My guy used the Fein model for his work - and he stayed with the job... 

    I think that to spare other boaters the $$$ of bottom sanding that we need a vacuum grinder NOT the orbital sanders to remove the paint.  Otherwise the cost of boat ownership will really climb through the roof. 

    I also did a little E friendly chemical stripping -- ended up with a 24 hour wait and goo to remove - clogging the sand paper - messy messy etc. 

    No yard offered any sort of "sand" blasting to remove the paint. 

    I'm interested in ideas that would very low dust and much faster.  Ideas include some sort of sonic removal tool? (a blue sky idea) or a hooded grinder come to mind. 

    I also ran across this product as a preventative measure - uses sonic waves to discourage the sea life from attaching to the hull. 



    Last modified: December 03, 2014 6:30 PM | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • December 02, 2014 8:44 PM
    Reply # 3161693 on 3161613
    Deleted user

    There is company in Texas that makes dustles blaster that uses very little water. I do not know if it is up to California enviromental codes. Looks simple and easy. 

    http://www.dustlessblasting.com/marine.html

    Last modified: December 03, 2014 6:28 PM | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • December 03, 2014 9:08 AM
    Reply # 3163082 on 3161613
    Deleted user

    Jay thanks for the pictures!

    Yes the bottom paint removal is a real pain! and yes that is where the yard makes $$$$ 25/hr cost vs the 90 sell. for the wet blasting see attached alt. to the dustless blaster above.  http://www.ultimatewasher.com/sandblaster.htm

    But I bet they will not let you use it (runoff from the water) ugh!

    Thanks for the bluesky request, I have a blue sky idea (call me, as it is really really out there) and we would want to test it on a sample before using it on the boat there could be a hazard to the glass but ?.  I am not listing it because it is really out there, and if it does work we would want to patent it and have some one make a tool for its use.

    Some questions

    1.) How deep did the pink on the pins go? the pinking is the loss of Zinc from the copper in the bronze you know.

    2.) The steel with the pits (where did it come from?)

    3.) The fin did not look to dirty (is that how it came out or did they blast it with the pressure washer?)

    Not sure you used this, but a block of wood under the tiller as far back as possible will allow the rudder to be moved up and down for pin alignment (2 people)

    Keep up the good work:

    Norm

    P.s. you do not want a 15.00/hr guy grinding with a grinder on the bottom. If it is held in one spot he can remove 1/4" glass in about 1/2 second +/- ( to use them is not easy, and you will need to sand after as well)

    Last modified: December 03, 2014 9:21 AM | Deleted user
  • December 03, 2014 12:53 PM
    Reply # 3163254 on 3161613

    Jay: Wow I wish I knew you were going to be at Ladd,s. I was moving my boat there in Nov but postponed until after the holidays. For my hull I used a paint planer. It comes as an attachment to a Makita grinder. It went real fast and very clean with a vacuum attachment. I too ran into some very thick bottom paint and gelcoat around the curve of the keel. I needed to do the full gelcoat removal as it was wasted from surface and deep blisters. This may be too intensive for just paint removal. I bought it on ebay for $ 250.00. Then sold it on ebay for $250.00. After the removal it required some extensive fairing and finish sanding but I hate to think what a grinder/ sander job would have taken for the same result.       

  • December 03, 2014 6:38 PM
    Reply # 3163743 on 3163082
    Anonymous member (Administrator)
    Norm Rhines wrote:

    Jay thanks for the pictures!

    Yes the bottom paint removal is a real pain! and yes that is where the yard makes $$$$ 25/hr cost vs the 90 sell. for the wet blasting see attached alt. to the dustless blaster above.  http://www.ultimatewasher.com/sandblaster.htm

    But I bet they will not let you use it (runoff from the water) ugh!  

    Right the air qualilty board shut down the sand blasting and I'm sure the water quality wouldn't like the water sand blasting. 

    Some questions

    1.) How deep did the pink on the pins go? the pinking is the loss of Zinc from the copper in the bronze you know.

    I don't know the depth at this time -- I'll look after we have the new ones installed. 

    2.) The steel with the pits (where did it come from?)

    The SS is the boomkin tangs(?) and where the tang presses against the hull.  I have new thicker round hole versions to replace from Bud. 

    3.) The fin did not look to dirty (is that how it came out or did they blast it with the pressure washer?) 

    The bottom was dove on about 4 weeks ago and after a 78 kmile trip - I took the shots just after the boat came out of the water and before the pressure wash... 

     


  • December 03, 2014 6:45 PM
    Reply # 3163747 on 3163254
    Anonymous member (Administrator)
    Alan Johnson wrote:

    Jay: Wow I wish I knew you were going to be at Ladd,s. I was moving my boat there in Nov but postponed until after the holidays. For my hull I used a paint planer. It comes as an attachment to a Makita grinder. It went real fast and very clean with a vacuum attachment. I too ran into some very thick bottom paint and gelcoat around the curve of the keel. I needed to do the full gelcoat removal as it was wasted from surface and deep blisters. This may be too intensive for just paint removal. I bought it on ebay for $ 250.00. Then sold it on ebay for $250.00. After the removal it required some extensive fairing and finish sanding but I hate to think what a grinder/ sander job would have taken for the same result.       

    Alan: 

    Sorry we didn't touch bases -- I can recommend the yard as a great place to work with and at.  I'm heading there 12/4 until probably 12/9 or until I'm to tired and need to go back to work to rest!  Dave King arrives on 12/5 and probably by Sunday there will be good progress - inspite of the rain.  So drop by if you wish... email me or text/call 91 six 802 69 six three. 

    WOW wish I had seen this  - is this tool what you used.. I'll have to show the folks at Ladd's.


    Jay
    Last modified: December 12, 2014 7:11 AM | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • December 04, 2014 4:19 AM
    Reply # 3163896 on 3161613
    Jay Bietz wrote:

    I'm very concerned that the time to sand the bottom was much longer the it should have been.  I think the time will be ~19 (actual invoice for 14 hours) hrs at $90 per hour...

    $90 an hour to just sand the bottom?  That's insane. I feel for you guys in CA.


  • December 05, 2014 9:25 AM
    Reply # 3164716 on 3161613
    Deleted user

    Thanks for the answers.

    The corrosion is pit type (salt trapped and eating away in one spot that gets bigger, and bigger, and bigger)

    the fin looks like your diver is cleaning it OK, but for the prop, he did not do as well, see little barne's those really hurt the speed;  for best (well as far as I found) prop treatment is to buff the new blades until they shine like a mirror and then put a couple of coats of wax (or lanacoat) on them = good for 6 months and then = better than nothing till the next haul out.

    one picture I was hoping to see was from above and with all of the holes for the pins aligned (looking for that offset you asked about) if you get a chance.

    Not sure I can make it up but I will see.

    Norm

    p.s. Not sure on the sonic thing (it will work the fiberglass some) this could add other issues (blisters?) I think they have had this out for 8? years so, so any issues should just be starting to show on the first boats+/-?

    Last modified: December 05, 2014 9:35 AM | Deleted user
  • December 05, 2014 11:19 AM
    Reply # 3164781 on 3161613

    Well I'll be damned, that paint planer thing looks like the ticket for our upcoming deck-repaint. I think, if we're ever going to solve the crazing, we gotta take off the old gel coat on the deck, then seal all with high-build epoxy, then topcoat.

    Thanks for that info! I think i'll pick one up on ebay. Apparently they don't depreciate at all. I have a couple great grinders, but I've been unable to find an attachment only? Is there something to search for other than "paint planer" or "hand held planer"? 

    Best!

    Aaron

  • December 05, 2014 12:32 PM
    Reply # 3164837 on 3161613

    Aaron: It is called a paint shaver. They have a website www.paintshaver.com . I would recommend getting the diamond tips and then practice with it before you go at anything valuable. I could not find just an attachment either. I think it requires a certain rpm and power to work properly. Good luck with ebay and your project.   

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