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Winch Angles

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  • August 17, 2011 6:23 PM
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    Message # 678764
    Anonymous member
    I have looked through the old posts and come across a couple of references to the proper angulation of jib sheet winches, but no specific info. I suspect that my winches are not properly angled as I tend to get overriding wraps if I put more than one or two wraps around the winch. What is the optimal angle? Also, this tends to happen on the halyard winches as well, but as they are mounted on the mast, I suppose nothing can be done about that.
  • August 19, 2011 10:10 AM
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    Reply # 680056 on 678764
    Kevin Donahue

    Frank,

    Lewmar recommends with the winch mounted on a level surface a lead angle for the rope of about 5 to 10 degrees up from the base axis.  On mast mounted winches it is sometimes helpful if a wedge is used to angle the winch slightly to prevent overrides.

    Having more than 10 degrees of lead angle to the winch won't hurt, but depending on how much angle you have you could have increased friction if the line drags on the drum base flare as it enters the drum.

     

    Kevin
  • August 19, 2011 10:38 AM
    Quote
    Reply # 680080 on 678764
    Anonymous member
    Frank Scalfano wrote:I have looked through the old posts and come across a couple of references to the proper angulation of jib sheet winches, but no specific info. I suspect that my winches are not properly angled as I tend to get overriding wraps if I put more than one or two wraps around the winch. What is the optimal angle? Also, this tends to happen on the halyard winches as well, but as they are mounted on the mast, I suppose nothing can be done about that.


    Frank,

    I've been told by the old salts that the exit angle of the line should match the bell of the drum, ie. parallel to that surface of the drum just below the bottom wrap. Making that happen sounds like a bit of work involving a wedge shaped piece and likely redrilling holes and lengthening bolts.

    I've read in one the forums that a rolling hitch can be made onto a sheet and cleated off to unload a bad overwrap.

    scott
  • August 19, 2011 4:53 PM
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    Reply # 680296 on 678764
    Anonymous member
    The reason I brought this up, besides the comment I mentioned on an old post, is the annoying experience I had on another, smaller, much less blue-water boat, in which all the winches, no doubt all standard factory issue, worked flawlessly with any number of wraps with no overrides. On that boat the winches are bolted directly onto the fiberglass. I don't know if the brackets on the W32 were designed with a specific angle in mind, or if the teak pads on mine on which the winches sit are intended to give the optimal angle. Why were the brackets not designed with this in mind, if they were not? Were the brackets (stainless) never intended to directly contact the winches(bronze)? 
  • August 19, 2011 5:16 PM
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    Reply # 680305 on 678764
    Anonymous member
    Here's some info from the Harken web site.  I suspect the angles are about the same for all brands of winches.

    Harken: Winches

    LINE ENTRY ANGLE IMPORTANT 
    Winches are further affected by how they are mounted on the boat. The most important factor is to ensure a proper line entry angle. Lines must lead up to a winch at about a 5-to-8-degree angle to prevent overrides of the sheet on the drum. If lead blocks are too high to allow this angle up to the drum, the winch must be raised slightly, or you will have serious problems preventing overrides. 
    good luck
  • August 20, 2011 8:35 AM
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    Reply # 680795 on 678764
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    With out the benefit of Dick previous post and after way to many overwarps and flaying jig sheets - I installed a cheek block on a small teak pad that has solved the problem on Pygmalion.

    In actual use, the sheet lays nicely and the blue "rubber" on the top of the winch body will hold the sheet nicely and I don't need to use the cleat.
  • August 20, 2011 6:34 PM
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    Reply # 681118 on 678764
    Anonymous member
    Jay,

    That is really great. Did you alter the brackets at all--it seems your winches are installed directly on the brackets. Given that the angle seems perfect, if the line is led from aft of the winch, is it possible that the bracket was installed wrong, i.e. the port bracket is on the starboard side and vice versa?
  • August 21, 2011 8:06 AM
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    Reply # 681359 on 678764
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Frank:  I can't say - the owner got the boat from the factory so I'm thinking that the brackets were installed at the factory as you see them now.  

    This mod is pretty straight foward and sure makes it easier to handle the jib sheets.

    Fair winds

    Jay

    Last modified: August 21, 2011 8:06 AM | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • August 23, 2011 1:27 PM
    Quote
    Reply # 683157 on 678764
    Deleted user
    Jay I love it. It is so clean!

    But I hope you have it tied down REALLY REALLY GOOD as it picks up twice the sheet load. Sheet load + an equal load from the winch both from about the same direction.

    I have a standup block down on the side deck 1 1/2" behind the scupper and 2" inside the bullworks. 30deg turning angle+/- . Offshore I have had the sheet so tight you could stand on a 3' unsupported section with my 200#+ weight and did not see any! deflection.  est. the line load at 1,800# +/-  so Jay you could see 3,600# + on the 180 deg cheek block if you loaded it up.

    Yea, at sea there are a number of crazy things you check out (standing on the loaded sheet did make me realize just how much line load the sheets can have on them, and did surprise me a little, kind of like standing on a 5/8" solid steel rod).

    Norm
      
    P.s. I still like it!  but be sure it can take the loads should be 2.5 Times + your line strength. You do want the line to part before the block, and the block will always have 2 times the line load on it.
  • August 24, 2011 8:06 AM
    Quote
    Reply # 683704 on 683157
    Anonymous member (Administrator)
    Norm Rhines wrote:Jay I love it. It is so clean!

    But I hope you have it tied down REALLY REALLY GOOD as it picks up twice the sheet load. Sheet load + an equal load from the winch both from about the same direction.

    I have a standup block down on the side deck 1 1/2" behind the scupper and 2" inside the bullworks. 30deg turning angle+/- . Offshore I have had the sheet so tight you could stand on a 3' unsupported section with my 200#+ weight and did not see any! deflection.  est. the line load at 1,800# +/-  so Jay you could see 3,600# + on the 180 deg cheek block if you loaded it up.

    Yea, at sea there are a number of crazy things you check out (standing on the loaded sheet did make me realize just how much line load the sheets can have on them, and did surprise me a little, kind of like standing on a 5/8" solid steel rod).

    Norm
      
    P.s. I still like it!  but be sure it can take the loads should be 2.5 Times + your line strength. You do want the line to part before the block, and the block will always have 2 times the line load on it.


    Well, it's stood up for several years on the bay so far... and don't know how to figure out the load capability of the fastners...

    Jay
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