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pintal/gougen repair

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  • August 01, 2011 5:15 AM
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    Message # 667000
    Deleted user
    I will soon haul Sapphire #703 to repair rudder play. I believe the gougens to be FRP with teflon inserts, pintal to be bronze. There  has never been a sacrificial zink on the rudder. My question is do you recommend zinks for this rudder? Currently in Cartagena Columbia where there are 3 other W32. A rondo can happen anywhere. thanks John
  • August 01, 2011 9:52 AM
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    Reply # 667174 on 667000
    Anonymous member
    John Humphrey wrote:I will soon haul Sapphire #703 to repair rudder play. I believe the gougens to be FRP with teflon inserts, pintal to be bronze. There  has never been a sacrificial zink on the rudder. My question is do you recommend zinks for this rudder? Currently in Cartagena Columbia where there are 3 other W32. A rondo can happen anywhere. thanks John

    The gudgeons are fiberglass, laminated with a fiberglass tube in the center.  The fiberglass will wear in time, and it is hard to make any repairs to it.  One possible approach if you have quite a bit of wear in the fiberglass tube, is to pour in some thickened epoxy resin, let it get almost hard, then move th rudder back an forth to make sure it will move.  That will fill the gaps.  You may have to put some putty or tape on the underside to prevent the epoxy from running out the bottom until it hardens.

    The bronze pins should be fine.  I don't feel the need for zincs on them as thay are not in contact with any dissimilar metals.  Only the bolts, nuts, and washers, which should be bronze also.

     
  • August 02, 2011 7:43 AM
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    Reply # 667777 on 667000
    Deleted user
    thanks Bud, I'll let you know what I find and how the repairs go. John
  • October 04, 2011 12:14 AM
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    Reply # 714678 on 667000
    Deleted user
    Hi Bud,  
             Today we removed Kabuki's rudder after experiencing fore and aft play on the top gudgeon. We have found that the gudgeon and pintal have sustained wear of about 2mm on each. We are having a new pintal made here in Whangarei, and we will put a former into the gudgeon and fill around it with epoxy to fix the wear.
     We are not able to source the bronze coach bolts for the gudgeons/pintals here in New Zealand, would you be able to let us know if you can supply them? and at what cost?
    Also we noticed some electrolysis on the pintals, should we be worried about this?

    Kia Ora

    Wendy
    Kabuki 
    425

  • October 04, 2011 7:11 AM
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    Reply # 714847 on 714678
    Anonymous member
    Wendy Sears wrote:Hi Bud,  
             Today we removed Kabuki's rudder after experiencing fore and aft play on the top gudgeon. We have found that the gudgeon and pintal have sustained wear of about 2mm on each. We are having a new pintal made here in Whangarei, and we will put a former into the gudgeon and fill around it with epoxy to fix the wear.
     We are not able to source the bronze coach bolts for the gudgeons/pintals here in New Zealand, would you be able to let us know if you can supply them? and at what cost?
    Also we noticed some electrolysis on the pintals, should we be worried about this?

    Kia Ora

    Wendy
    Kabuki 
    425


    Pretty hard to find the bronze carriage bolts used in the original installation.  I would recommend using bronze hex head bolts, which should be readily available.

    You might see some electrolysis on the bronze pins, but since the only metal is bronze pins, bolts, and nuts, it is hardly worth attaching a zinc.

    Another method of repair for the wear is to use a piece of thin mylar sheet wrapped around the pin to fill the gap.  It may be tight when installed, but with water lubrication it should free up and turn smoothly.

    Bud 
  • October 04, 2011 12:34 PM
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    Reply # 715059 on 667000
    Deleted user
    Thanks for that Bud, we are hoping to rejuvenate a few of the old coach bolts but some were cut off and hammered on original installation, so are pretty unusable now. 

    Thanks again

    KIa ora
    Wendy
  • October 04, 2011 1:28 PM
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    Reply # 715091 on 667000
    Anonymous
    Silicon bronze carriage bolts
  • October 04, 2011 2:01 PM
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    Reply # 715120 on 667000
    Deleted user
    http://www.greenboatstuff.com/sibrcabo.html

    Also: Not to step on Bud, because he is really a great guy!,  but you do have a very very large sheet of mostly copper attached to these bolts (It is called bottom paint).  

    For protection I have added a zinc on each of the pins (using a second silicone bronze nut to attach the zinc to bolt after the nut holding the pin to the rudder) remember the zinc will be eaten away (don't use it as a washer).

    If they show discoloration, then there is corrosion. (it makes bronze look a little like a salmon colored part) the zinc is going which is not good, but getting old is not that great either. 

    However there is allot of material in the pins. so it is a +/-  I did the zinc's on mine for piece of mind for the past 10 years+/-  God I am getting old.

    Norm

    Oh if you do the epoxy thing remember to wax the pins (again and again) three times seams to get a good covering, and this makes the turning the rudder much much easier after it sets. Also the teflon or nylon washer above and below the gudgeon's makes a big difference. 




    Last modified: November 09, 2011 8:13 PM | Deleted user
  • October 05, 2011 12:26 PM
    Quote
    Reply # 715872 on 667000
    Deleted user
    Thanks for that,
                            We have managed to rescue all of the bronze coach bolts using a die nut on the threads. The electrolysis on the pintals is very minimal considering they are 36 years old. We thought this might be the first time Kabuki has had her rudder off, if so it was reasonably easy to remove, except for the fact that when the bolts were applied originally someone punched the thread to stop the nuts coming loose.

    Any way thanks for all comments, it is very interesting getting the advice.

    Cheers 
    Wendy
  • November 08, 2011 2:06 PM
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    Reply # 745406 on 667000
    Deleted user
    Are the pintal pins aluminum bronze?
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