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Intermediate stays

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  • November 08, 2014 5:07 AM
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    Message # 3145279
    Deleted user
    Has anybody ever installed intermediate stays as an alternative to the running backs on a w32? The advantage of not having to mess with additional rigging is very appealing, especially since I'm usually singlehanding. But what about the additional compression loads on the mast? Any thoughts?
  • November 08, 2014 10:41 AM
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    Reply # 3145485 on 3145279
    Anonymous member

    I have seen it done , the boat is Lorie Lee a W32 . I can't say anything as far as loads and stuff like that but , I would think that it wouldn't make any difference , except you would lose the ability to move them back in a good blow . Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean. For us , Patricia A  (W28) we just leave them in the forward position and make sure they are tight. Anyhow  Lori Lee's staysail back stays are permanently fixed at the forward point with a turnbuckle . To tell you the truth when I first saw the stays like that I didn't really think it was a good idea .

    Last modified: November 08, 2014 11:02 AM | Anonymous member
  • November 08, 2014 12:54 PM
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    Reply # 3146020 on 3145279
    Deleted user
    So intermediates would be permanent stays, led from the mast where the staysail halyard is located, aft of the spreaders and to a separate chainplate aft of the existing 3. The angle the boom can be extended would be narrowed as a result, mast compression loads would increase, but there should be enough fore and aft staying to minimize mast pumping caused by the stay sail. It's just a thought...
  • November 08, 2014 3:23 PM
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    Reply # 3146072 on 3145279
    Anonymous member

    Yes Matt , that's what I thought you meant . I agree that easing the boom to leeward when running would be shortened up somewhat, I like to get it out as far as we can when running DDW .  Maybe we should ask Bud what he thinks .

    Last modified: December 24, 2014 10:26 AM | Anonymous member
  • December 24, 2014 9:48 AM
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    Reply # 3176456 on 3145279
    Deleted user

    Hey guys - Kibitka had a 4th chainplate when I bought her. The running backs had turnbuckles on them rather than the usual tackle and it looks like they were just hooked up as intermediates at the aft chainplate.

    I left them off and unfortunately there is now a gap in the caprail and rubrail. I was concerned that keeping them there would prevent the boom from going all the way out when I was running - not sure if that's such a big deal now that I have sailed her a few years.
  • December 24, 2014 10:39 AM
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    Reply # 3176463 on 3145279
    Anonymous member

    If you make the staysail back stay removable ( a shackle at it's lower mounting point ) then all you have to do is remove it when running winged out, but that would only make sense with a tackle . Because we run a tackle rather than fixed all we do is just loosen up .

    Merry Christmas , all .  
  • December 25, 2014 10:15 PM
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    Reply # 3176838 on 3145279
    Anonymous

    OK, something I have been thinking about for some time that kind of relates to this topic so here goes. 

    What if you took the inner stay and moved it up to connect within a few inches from the top of the mast?  This way you could eliminate running or intermediate stays all together and just rely on the existing headsail backstay which would simplify the rig for single handing.  The only down side I could think of might be tacking the headsail through a slightly narrower slot but unless you are short tacking up a river or something it is probably not a big deal on these boats. Just wondering if there are other downsides I am not thinking of.

    Mike 
  • December 28, 2014 5:50 AM
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    Reply # 3177407 on 3176838
    Anonymous member
    Mike Green wrote:

    "The only down side I could think of might be tacking the headsail through a slightly narrower slot but unless you are short tacking up a river or something it is probably not a big deal on these boats."


    Mike,

    I think that you'd find that it would substantially affect the ease of tacking the headsail, unless you were using a relatively small headsail, like a Yankee.

    Jack
  • December 28, 2014 9:06 AM
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    Reply # 3177449 on 3145279
    Anonymous

    Thanks Jack.   I was concerned about that too but I don't think tacking would be that difficult in most scenarios. My stays'l is the small Kern Yankee  on a Profurl as you mention.  

    I am only suggesting moving the top of the forestay, not the bottom.  The resulting gap between forestay and jibstay would not be parallel so the effect on the resulting gap (and tackability) would likely be negligible.  If you search for "Alden Schooner sailplan" and select 'images' you will see kind of what I am talking about.

    I guess what concerns me the most is that there must be millions of cutter rigs out there but I have yet to run across this arrangement so there must be something else I am not considering.  

    -M
  • December 28, 2014 11:40 AM
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    Reply # 3177483 on 3145279
    Anonymous member

    Ahoy Mike,  

    One problem will be the tensioning of the two forward stays. With two stays pulling against the backstay, then the backstay will be loaded up to twice the tension of each forward stay. It will, potentially, be difficult getting an acceptable tension on either of the two forward stays. If that goal is reached then the total tension on all three stays will put that much more load on the mast compression system.  The entire backstay system will also be loaded beyond what may be safe, as that system is the single biggest failure system of all of the known rig failures and boat losses.    The staysail stay will be the most difficult to properly tension because of the, now, extreme, aspect ratio of the stay.    But certainly, it can all be made to work.   Good luck

    Last modified: December 28, 2014 11:45 AM | Anonymous member
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